In this interview we get to experience Johnny’s metamorphosis from an agro under dog to a compassionate mentor. And the best part? There’s so much more to come.
As always, go watch the Gumby Circuit video on the V20 Youtube Channel and check out the store here on the website.
Gumby Circuit:
How did you hear about the GC?
I was part of organizing that Johnson. I wasn’t part of the actual planning, but I heard about it from Max primarily. Max kind of told me about it and kept bringing it up. So it was cool to see it expand from just an idea into an actual thing. My job was finding climbers.
How did you end up on the lineup?
Oh dude, it was a mix of things. First of all, it was kind of a joke. Late one night, there was a week until the competition, and we couldn't find athletes. And Max jokes, “well if you can't find anybody, you're in”.
The days went by and he looks at me and he’s like, “look John, you're in. There's no option.” And I look at him wide eyed. I’m not prepared to do this at all. I don’t even have a bike.
Where did you get your bike?
I went through a lot of rejections. I first asked like 10 people and they said no. So then I had to use Max's broken bike. The seat was really high up for me and it was stuck. I basically was given the bike at 2 am that day.
Approx 4:00am the day of the Gumby CircuitWhat was the hardest part of the comp?
Definitely the biking. I was not comfortable at all. I'll say this, my ass was sore.
At the first boulder, hopefully you'll see this in the extended cut, my toes wouldn’t uncurl. I literally had to pry my feet open because I was just cramping non stop.
Did it feel like a competition?
Nah. I mean, it felt less like , “oh we’re trying to beat these people” it's more like “we’re on this trip together. We’re on this suffer fest together” which I think is a cool concept.
I think there could have been moments where we could have been more aggressive.
Austin had opportunities to start the timer whenever and he chose not to. He chose to be a nice guy about it.
Gumby Circuit Crew at Sweat, V10
What can we do better next year?
I would like a carb or something.
A carb? Like to eat?
Ya, like a jelly or something…
Bring your own snacks dude.
It would have been cool if there was a specific path. Because then it would make it more of a race. I know it's a choose your own adventure, but I think it would have been cool if we were all on the same path. And sure, you can deviate from that maybe, but this is the fastest way to do it. That would have added more to the racing element.Describe each Gumby Circuit competitor with one word.
Austin Hoyt: Legend
Nasif Kabir: Crack
Luke Dreyfuss: Humble
Josh Platko: Futuristic
Where’s Johnny?
Where are you right now? What are you doing?
Right now I’m in Japan. Tokyo. Doing some good shit. I’m training out here. Also here for vacation. Hanging Out.
Where have you been training?
I’ve been to two B pumps. The one in Akihabara and the one in Ogikubo
I mean it’s sick. The one in Akihabara’s different. You know, more dynamic, but not that hard. I’d say less physical and more technical.
Where in the other B pump (Ogikubo), I’d say that place for sure is a grade harder than the states.
I’m excited to go to two more. I’ve only been here for five days and I'm here for another 10 days. I’m in the fucking shit right now.
Is it different than back at home? (NYC)
There’s no showboating.
That’s your style man. You’re a showboater!
I know, I'm a showboater man. It’s not cool here dude. In America, climbing the way I climb, you know mad rough, showboaty, kind of campusing through. People think that's sick back in the states. People dont give a fuck about that in Japan.
“I don’t give a fuck that you did that orange tag, because you climbed it like shit.”
Being overly strong isn’t cool. It’s having more beauty and technique and efficiency. To climb it properly is what’s cool.
Have you picked up any Japanese?
Nama bīru o kudasai (Draft Beer Please)
I know you’re also interested in fashion. What are your side quests in Japan with fashion and cultural exploration?
I’m trying to understand what is cool and why it’s cool? And why do people sometimes prefer to create instead of just buy.
For example I met somebody the other day, and he was talking about how he loves Chrome Hearts, but instead of buying Chrome Hearts, he makes his own heavy silver bracelets out of old zippers, or out of old brackets.
I found that so sick. To create your own things because you're inspired by the thing that you love.
Why does that matter in the climbing world? Does it?
I’ve been saying this forever. I feel like there are cool climbers, but I think they’re trying to look cool in a way that already exists. There’s already “skater” cool. Why are we trying to look like skaters? Like what are we dude?
And I don't think we all have to look the same. Fuck, I want us to look different regionally. NYC climbers shouldn't look like California climbers. That doesn’t make sense. We’re different. We’re so different.
So I think those aspects should be shown in the way we dress, the way we talk, the way we walk. The fact that we all want to look like a homogenous thing is not accurate. It's not who we are.
Is it important to have people to look up to in terms of style off the wall?
If you ask me, 100%. I mean, look at any sport. And I know climbers don't like to view climbing as a sport. But everyone has a person they look up to, right?
Basketball for example, we have Mr. Lebron James. You look up to Lebron James. The way he dresses, the way he acts, his composure. Right? That is something people look at.
Who do you look up to in that way?
Dennis Rodman. I swear to God I love the way he acts. His braggadociousness, his energy, the way he dresses. He looks crazy. But to me, that was cool.
He looked animalistic in a way that no one else looked on that court. And that will inspire future generations of kids who want to be like Dennis, who want to be like Lebron, who want to be like Curry.
Do you see that in climbing?
We’re all stand up, good people, right? I think that’s a good foundation. But I can't honestly say that I want to be like any other climber. I was never like, oh I wanna be like Rabotou, you know. Or like, I wanna be like Sean Bailey. Or I wanna be like Stefano. I honestly don't wanna be like them. You know?
So what am I saying? I don’t see that swag. We could do more, you know? We could do more as climbers to have an image.
So, Johnny, what is climbing?
When it comes to climbing itself? What does climbing mean? I think that's a hard question because there are two types of climbing, right?
Outdoor climbing, for me personally, is meant for people who need to feel free. They feel like they're kind of lost in a certain direction. And climbing presents us with freedom. A freedom that takes us from point A to point B. And I dont think it’s like, “oh, I made it from the bottom to the top.” The journey is that freedom.
I think in the gym you don't get that same feeling. But for some people it's the athletic part. That expression of movement is what made you feel free. To use your body in this way that your body’s never been used before is freeing.
Those feelings of freedom, I think, is what makes climbing fun.
Origins:
Tell me about the Cliffs at Valhalla?
My friends took me out to this gym because it was cheap and there was a groupon.
Believe it or not, I fucking hated climbing. We were doing top rope the whole time and I was shaking. But right afterwards they showed us bouldering.
Bouldering was like my bread and butter. I got on the wall and was immediately doing V5s. It just made more sense to me.
Why do you think that is?
I’m a little bitch. I’m afraid of heights. Which is something I've gotten better about over the years. And with bouldering, I didn't feel that way. I was willing to throw myself so hard at the boulders.
And the way it made my body feel, you know. It felt like I was wrestling something. It felt like I was fighting. You know?
You came into the game a little bit later. How old were you when you first started climbing?
I was 16.
Do you recall what it felt like when you realized climbing was starting to become your thing? Can you paint us a picture?
I think it was the second month of climbing. There was this very wholesome moment where I felt accepted for being me. I wasn't afraid to be weird. I wasn't afraid to be this kid that I am. It was just like, you’re Johnny.
I was celebrated for being who I was. And that was when I was like, this climbing thing, even if I’m not good at it, maybe if I’m not the best at it, the community’s holding it down for me and I could do this forever. These people got my back. It genuinely felt like they were my family.
You’re very family oriented. And by family, I mean the broader family. How did Ossining wrestling influence that mindset?
Ossining wrestling… We were considered one of the worst teams in the county. Our coach, Tom Larm, great guy. He pushed us to rely on each other. To suffer together. He was like “you guys need to rely on each other like brothers.” And we suffered as brothers. And it made me change how I view people.
I didn't view people as just my friends anymore. In that moment, these strangers became my brothers.
We were in the same room doing the same work. Sweating, bleeding, crying. There's a brotherly bond there that can never be severed, you know?
Ossining Wrestling 2020
That sounds super intense. Can you describe your mentality at the time?
Fuck them. That was our mentality. We’re not just there to win, we’re there to dominate. I wanted to pin kids in 30 seconds. I wanted people to know that I was there. You don't know who I am but I know you. I'm there to take this from you. There was this animalistic hunger to win.
And it felt like I had to take it. I had to take that, because no one was going to give you that respect. They don’t respect you. All those other towns, they don't respect you. They want to rip your head off.
That mindset of domination and beating the shit out of whatever is in front of you... Not a lot of people talk about climbing like that. And it's almost taboo to want to win. Do you bring that into climbing?
I’ll be honest, I tried to. I really tried to. It’s really hard.
When I first started climbing, I had that mentality. It was easy because I didn't know my competition. I was competing in USAC.
In my head, these kids don't like me, because I'm not like them. That's how I thought. And that’s how I kept myself driven. These kids have everything, and I have nothing. You know? And so I have to show them that I belong here as much as they belong here.
What made you feel like you didn’t belong?
I saw how they dressed. I dressed so differently. I had fucking jordan shorts and wife beaters on, you know? I didn't know how climbers dressed. So I'd show up, and I could tell people would look at me. I felt like I didn't belong. I felt like a bad guy.
So I felt driven. I wanted to show that I deserve to be there. And obviously I changed. Over time, I've gotten to meet my competition.
It's so hard to stay hungry in that way. Everyones so nice. There's never a moment where I’ve met another person who's like, “I'm gonna beat you.”
How has wrestling translated into your climbing style?
Well, I was a very physical wrestler. A very thuggy wrestler. I was very reliant on my physicality. I never was one to be the most technical. I never was that guy.
I was strong and my head was full of bricks.
And my climbing kind of turned out that way.
But over time, that became the way I liked to climb. Theres something about climbing like you’re going to rip the fucking holds off the wall. Its so sick and so awesome and fun. It's not the prettiest way to climb, but I definitely think it's a way to climb.
Are there any climbers that you look up to on the wall?
Kyra Condie. Low key. Sport climbing. She’s actually romping up that shit. Just rip the fucking holds off and just go.
Obe. he was probably the most jacked climber of that era. Just physically big, you know. And you can see that in the way he climbs. Just pinching hard and, fuckin, really, forcing his way up. I love him. I can't really see many climbers like that anymore.
I do like a rugged climber. I like it when somebody is fucking fighting for their shit.
Crimp City. What is that?
Alright, well. Crimp City was the thing that started off with the OG crew that I had back in the Valhalla days. You know when I was on the team.
It was this OG climbing collective back in the day. We were trying to be like this other collective, Bagel Boys. Do you know them? Bagel Boys Climbing?
We were the young guns trying to take over the old men.
And it kinda started falling through. I think a part of it was our friendship kind of grew apart. I kind of stopped showing up to the team as much. I wasn't really going to the practices anymore.
Crimp City Crew 2022 What was going on at that time?
At the time, I was being a pretty bad kid. Very delinquent, if you will. Where I was kind of covered in hickeys and showed up high to practice all the time. So I really didn't feel like I was a part of the culture. Because I just wasn’t really like the rest of the kids.
V20 Switzerland Trip 2024:
You were on a V20 trip this summer with Max and Derek. What was the mission?
The mission was to make a good ass movie.
How did that change the vibes?
I was really psyched on the movie idea. I think it was hard because there were things that felt a little performative. That was kind of weird. Or the set ups for the boulders took so long that I was like, alright, well, let's get this over with.
I think the only thing I regret now is that I didn't record enough emotion. I feel like you don't really think about it on a bouldering trip. You just record the boulders. “haha sick clips”, right? But in hindsight, I think what would have made a good climbing movie, or, a better climbing movie is more of the emotions that we have.
Can you tell me about some of the emotion you wish you captured?
There are definitely moments where Max is angry. You never see Max angry. You know? He's pissed.
There are moments where I was bitching and moaning and crying about how I wanted to go home and see the girl that, at the time, I was seeing. I remember being like, I'm in the swiss alps and all I wanna do is text this girl and see this girl. And that means more than this climb that we're gonna do.
What's missing from climbing filmmaking/storytelling?
The life outside of climbing.
You and Max spent a lot of time together in Switzerland. How did that turn out?
I definitely rubbed him the wrong way often. He was very much sick of me by the end of the trip.
I'm the opposite of him, I guess. I’m very loud and nosy and pokey-ish. Very touchy feely type of guy. I want to do things. I want to go out, I want to drink, I want to party. He kind of likes to sit down and just chill. I could tell he was very much fed up with me.
And now you’re roommates.
Yes.
Max, Johnny, and Derek in Switzerland 2024This was your first time in an alpine environment. I heard you were pretty spooked.
Oh ya. 100%. The ridge itself, no problem. Rock, I felt solid on. No real concept of fear there. It was more the ice and the snow. Especially when we were on the summit. It looks bigger on camera, but when we were on it, it was like, literally both my feet fit on there, and if I stepped on the wrong things, I was gonna fall off this fucking cliff face. Which is terrifying.
How was the team dynamic up there?
I’ve faced death / danger before. But not in the way where I was actually attached to somebody. Being simulled up with max, if I do fall or max falls, it's my job to save the other person or his job to save me. I didn't want to be a burden, which slowed me up a little bit for sure. Especially on snow.
I’d rather die alone, to be honest.
With certain partners, that burden goes away. Do you have any partners like that?
My sport climbing crew, Ale and Tommy. Shout out them. I trust them with my life for some reason. I don't know what it is. I think it's because they believe in me in a different way. I remember I was in Rumney doing dynos and shit. Climbing slab. I didn't care. I trusted them.
Setting and Coaching:
You’ve been setting at Movement for some time now. What have you taken from that?
A lot of things. I understand how movement works way better because of setting. I think I'm starting to understand more and more of what the new generation of climbers are looking like. What the new climbers can do. And also, just that people don't really know how to rock climb.
Which is kind of funny to say. But it's true. I've seen people on so many easy things that I've set just butcher the sequence so hard. There’s so much to climbing that we kind of take for granted. Of course you’d climb it that way. Of course you do it like this. But people don't actually understand things and it's nice because, to me, setting is a way to teach people how to do that.
You’re also the head coach at Movement Gowanus. What’s that like at such a young age?
I’d say it's definitely an interesting position to be in at my age. I feel like I have big expectations of myself because I know what I'm capable of as the coach. I know what I can teach these kids, and I know what they're capable of. And I want to push them to that level in the most healthy way possible. Which is hard, because the way I got coached is not how I would coach my kids. So it's like learning a whole new way to be that person.
How were you coached when you were coming up?
Not in a bad way, but I was definitely made fun of a lot. I was definitely praised for what I was good at, but what I was bad at was very apparent.
It became a gag. ‘Don't be like johnny. His foot work sucks.’ And I think it was a way to try to bully me out of it. But I think it made me very insecure, and in my head I think of myself as someone who has poor technique forever.
Young climbers take comp climbing very seriously these days. What are you seeing out there?
I’ve seen a lot between kids and their parents. I’ve seen that pressure of the kids feeling like they need to perform. I've seen kids break down, you know, crying, sobbing. Their results mean so much to them. I feel like they should be proud about the fact that they’re able to perform at all.
How are you combating that in your coaching?
The big thing for me is telling them that they’re winning a moment. And I learned this from Zoe Sayetta, our previous head coach and my mentor. With Zoe, her mentality was always winning that moment. And I've been working with that. You should be so proud that you have the opportunity to climb.
And rely on each other, you know. I'm trying to build that family with these kids. There are days when you come in and it's hard. There are days you're gonna come in and wanna cry. There are days you're gonna come in and you dont wanna be there. Rely on your teammate. They are in this just as much as you’re in this, and you should lean on their shoulder just as much as you want them to lean on yours. That is your sister, that is your brother. Rely on them. That's kinda what I'm trying to build.
What’s Next for Johnny?
Where is your climbing going?
Some people don’t know this, but I’m actually a Hondurian. Born there. I’ve been talking to my home federation and I’ll hopefully be joining my home federation to do World Cup climbing. So IFSC is right around the corner depending on a number of things.
Anything outside?
I really want to start opening up my schedule in any way to get as much climbing around the world in as possible this coming year. This has been the first time I ever, in my life, left the country (that isn’t Latin America). So this coming year, I want to start off strong and go as far and wide as possible. This is the first time in my life where I can really push it in climbing. And my parents, finally see the vision. The only hard part’s money.
What is your goal for tomorrow?
I want to feel satisfied. I feel like it's getting better every year. I have been more and more satisfied with my life. There have definitely been times where I'm not getting what I want. I've been fighting with that a lot. Maybe I don't deserve what I want. Maybe what I want isn't what I'm going to get anytime soon. So I’m trying to feel satisfied with what I'm getting.
And I’m not saying I'm cool with what I've got. No, I'm still getting hungrier. I'm getting hungrier again. And I'm finding this new energy. I'm hungry to train, I'm hungry to try hard. I'm hungry to pull and hungry to fight. I’m finding this drive in me that I haven't seen in a while.